Curse

SpyderArachnid · Nov 20, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Makai-

*swims through costume complaints and quest queries*

So how exactly is BLA easier now? Less enemies? Skill changes? Alesia not dying every two seconds?

It actually does seem easier now. Just did it today with a group, and we tore through it with no trouble. Seems the mobs have less damage reduction now as they were dropping quick. And it seems there is less mobs then there was before. I remember getting overwhelmed by the tons of Jades on one of the waves, but this time there was only like six of them.

Might of just been the group I was in, but I was on my Paragon. By far the worst of the characters I have taken through, and we cleared it easily. So it seems to have been toned down a bit from what it was. I still do loathe Temple of the Intolerable though. I mean, respawns? There is no other players in my explorable area, why are mobs respawning? Grrr.

Morphy · Nov 20, 2010, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The game pre-Factions in fact was very challenging. I remember Glint, THK and the Ring of Fire island being redicilously hard. As a matter of fact, people on guru had to form special teams and strategies for missions which can now be steamrolled in HM with heroes.

And as I recall, GW prophecies day was alot more fun, and a higher quality game overal. Wether or not the quality of the game, and the challenge are related, I'm not going to make claims on that, but you can't ignore the fact that as the game become easier and easier over the past years, the communities, both pve and pvp, have become more stupid, ignorant and even unwilling to learn to improve. Lazyness feeds lazyness, so to speak.

Lol. Glint is easy, all you need to do is interrupt the heal skill. I did this with a team consisting of only henchmen back in the day.

THK took me longer because my computer had heating problems (don't ask) and crashed at random but wasn't conceptually challenging. The only part that came close to being not completely brainless was where you had to defend the castle, but this was easily simplified by camping the King's location like a bitch.

The Ring of Fire mission was kind of annoying because of the Mursaat Towers. Nothing a bit of DPS from a minion master or simply a warrior training the seal couldn't fix. Ironically, the backdoor strategy was harder than the "break the frontdoor like a madman" option.

The mission after that wasn't very hard either, pretty linear and stuff, with the ether seal room being the hardest part because you actually had to retreat evety once in a while.

As for the lich mission, not hard at all, just veeeeeery tedious as luring multiple groups at the same time was very dangerous.

Overall, no. PvE was as loleasy in Prophecies as it is now. I don't know where people get the idea it was ever hard but if you don't believe me, try playing the missions with Proph only skills, only taking henchmen as your party members.

Killed u man · Nov 20, 2010, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I don't think you played during the very start then...

Interrupting Glint WAS in fact how teams used to beat him, however, back in the day, interrupts were alot harder to come by, because you usually had to dedicate whole bars just to do enough damage for the rest of the mission.

In the ring of fire islands, there usually wasn't that many corpses, and this was before Jagged and AoTl. Albeit, no minion cap was pretty redonculous, but you can't make minions if there aren't any corpses.

These were days when prot spirit and bonds were the only form of defence, and when Lingering curse, Rend and so much enchantremoval dominated PvE. (LC stripped all enchantments back then)

Just saying that a harder game breeds better players, is all...

Skyy High · Nov 20, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Putting Cry of Frustration, Savage Shot, and/or Savage Slash on someone's bar was really that taxing to your DPS? Really? Bullshit. Note that we also had Inspired Hex in Prophecies to deal with Glint's special hexes, and Wild Blow for her stance. All the pieces were there, it was just that people didn't always put them together, and so the mission ended up being way harder than it needed to.

And, that basically sums it up. Oldschool Prophecies was only ever hard because people still PUG-ed a lot, and there was inevitably someone who didn't know what they were doing or was running a joke of a build and aggroing the entire map. Even the people who were "good" still sucked, compared to what we are now; I know the builds that I have saved from years ago are cringe-inducingly horrible, but I also know they are better than a lot of builds I saw back then.

As for "better quality"...take off the rose-tinted glasses and think really hard about that. Go compare the lava in EotN to the lava in the Ring of Fire. Compare the mob compositions and diversity throughout all of NF or EotN to that of Prophecies. How many fricking spiders, scarabs, and devourers did we fight throughout the game? How many came in groups comprised of one or two professions? How many enemies only had 2, 3, maybe 4 skills?

Nostalgia is a powerful force.

(Yes, I played from the very start. Not beta, but close enough.)

Shadowspawn X · Nov 21, 2010, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Nostalgia is a powerful force.

Yes that is true, but there is a difference between nostalgia and just plain old facts. Yes we have all gotten better, still you have a generation of players who depend on runs, consumables, PvE skills and overall watered down content to get though the game. Throwing PI on every boss who is worth his salt is making us better players? People throwing up consumables to vanq? Doing unwaking waters in 50 seconds as a norm? I remember when kunna would take out half the party with one blast of dark chain lighting, which is now so insignificant no one even tries to interrupt it anymore. Its not just nostalgia there has been a real decline in the difficulty of this game.

Just look at the threads of people complaining about the difficulty of the Hearts of the North quests. Pulling with an insanely OP character is so hard for folks they are seriously up in arms about it. Because they can't remember a time when they had to do it as second nature just to get from point A to point B. There was a time when just walking outside of an outpost was actually very perilous. My point is that its not their fault at all. I blame the developers for creating an environment over the last three years where there is a sense of entitlement amongst some players that content has to be waltzed through on the 1st time with a great big pot of gold at the end.

Halfthought · Nov 21, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Putting Cry of Frustration, Savage Shot, and/or Savage Slash on someone's bar was really that taxing to your DPS? Really? Bullshit. Note that we also had Inspired Hex in Prophecies to deal with Glint's special hexes, and Wild Blow for her stance. All the pieces were there, it was just that people didn't always put them together, and so the mission ended up being way harder than it needed to.

And, that basically sums it up. Oldschool Prophecies was only ever hard because people still PUG-ed a lot, and there was inevitably someone who didn't know what they were doing or was running a joke of a build and aggroing the entire map. Even the people who were "good" still sucked, compared to what we are now; I know the builds that I have saved from years ago are cringe-inducingly horrible, but I also know they are better than a lot of builds I saw back then.

As for "better quality"...take off the rose-tinted glasses and think really hard about that. Go compare the lava in EotN to the lava in the Ring of Fire. Compare the mob compositions and diversity throughout all of NF or EotN to that of Prophecies. How many fricking spiders, scarabs, and devourers did we fight throughout the game? How many came in groups comprised of one or two professions? How many enemies only had 2, 3, maybe 4 skills?

Nostalgia is a powerful force.

(Yes, I played from the very start. Not beta, but close enough.)

Yeah, coming back from a three year break, no, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Remember DoA when it was first released, remember Hardmode when it was first released? Your right this game was never truly "challenging", but it was difficulty enough to be demanding and fun from its difficulty factor.

Coming back I'm shocked by how easy everything is. Load up discordway, switch to hardmode, take PI and some PvE skills, and its literally easier then most normal areas three years ago.

Skyy High · Nov 21, 2010, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfthought

Yeah, coming back from a three year break, no, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Remember DoA when it was first released, remember Hardmode when it was first released? Your right this game was never truly "challenging", but it was difficulty enough to be demanding and fun from its difficulty factor.

Coming back I'm shocked by how easy everything is. Load up discordway, switch to hardmode, take PI and some PvE skills, and its literally easier then most normal areas three years ago.

Please keep the original context in mind when posting. The original context, in this case, was the claim that the original game, specifically pre-Factions GW, was more challenging than the game is now. I don't think anyone is going to argue that PvE skills and consumables didn't make the game easier.

Halfthought · Nov 21, 2010, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Please keep the original context in mind when posting. The original context, in this case, was the claim that the original game, specifically pre-Factions GW, was more challenging than the game is now. I don't think anyone is going to argue that PvE skills and consumables didn't make the game easier.

Well it was, because the metagame was less developed. I'd agree that the intrinsic design of the game probably became harder, but you can't discount developments like refined builds, people generally becoming better, and heroes from the mix. All things considered the game was a more challenging experience in proph, five years down the road. Which is going to be disappointing to most people, whom generally would expect the experience of new content to get harder, not easier. Regardless of the tuning of the design, the point is that the experience is much easier.

Sakura Az · Nov 21, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Makai-

*swims through costume complaints and quest queries*

So how exactly is BLA easier now? Less enemies? Skill changes? Alesia staying alive for more than two seconds?

Alesia stays alive for 3 seconds now!

i only did BLA once before the update.. from what i remember, there is less enemies now.. it feels like a wave or 2 was removed.

Deviant Angel · Nov 21, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I decided to do BLA on another character earlier...

I spent the entire mission pinging the nearest target and pressing 1234567 in no particular order. I found that Thalkora was working her buns off a couple of times, but that was to be expected since she was our only monk and we weren't really caring too much about where we were standing. (standing in AoE with spectral agony is bad? hehe) Judging by the grumbling I heard on Skype when we killed the last mob, it's probably safe to assume that I wasn't the only person left unimpressed by the new and improved BLA.

I said it the other day and I'll say it again, please stop dumbing down my game because some people refuse to learn how to play.

I know some of you may find it ironic that I'm accusing others of being bad players after admitting that I was pressing random numbers and standing in AoE, but I was doing that to prove a point. You can win without even knowing how to play the game! It's pathetic that some people have gotten that far into the game and still can't figure out that skillbars and attributes aren't set in stone, some targets should probably die before others, and moving out of the AoE is usually a good idea when it starts to hurt. I would have failed miserably if I didn't know how to do any of that before they adjusted the difficulty. There are even a ton of NPCs standing around to help...

The same people that complained about the difficulty of BLA are probably in the other thread complaining about the new solo quests. A rez shrine guys? Seriously? What's wrong with reading the skill descriptions and watching your aggro bubble? One of the skills is a freaking insta-kill and the healing skill is insanely overpowered!

*takes a deep breath*

Milennin · Nov 21, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Haven't done the Battle for Lion's Arch after the update, just been reading this thread, but seems they've been doing it wrong.
I think just changing henchmen's levels to 20 and with updated skill bars for the quest would've been enough to change the quest from insane to hard. At least would've made it somewhat fair.

Icecream · Nov 21, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09

BLA is to easy right now, I agree with Deviant to the fullest, ignorant people must l2p

Xiaquin · Nov 21, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant Angel

I said it the other day and I'll say it again, please stop dumbing down my game because some people refuse to learn how to play.

While I didn't feel BLA was too difficult, we know exactly what has dumbed this game down, and all rage should be redirected toward it.

Skyy High · Nov 22, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfthought

Well it was, because the metagame was less developed. I'd agree that the intrinsic design of the game probably became harder, but you can't discount developments like refined builds, people generally becoming better, and heroes from the mix. All things considered the game was a more challenging experience in proph, five years down the road. Which is going to be disappointing to most people, whom generally would expect the experience of new content to get harder, not easier. Regardless of the tuning of the design, the point is that the experience is much easier.

I'm comparing difficulty as objectively as possible. It's not fair or appropriate to judge difficulty based on how good the upper echelons of the community are, because ANet certainly can't take that into account. New players are coming into the game (and a large portion of old-timers are simply not interested in getting better, nor should they be forced to). For these players, Prophecies is unequivocally the easiest campaign. Yes, we all had our "newb" moments 4 or 5 years ago, but that doesn't mean the game was really all that hard, it just means we had a lot to learn.

Carboplatin · Nov 22, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

So I started another toon thru the WiK/Gwen+Thackery story and they added the quest "A Good Deed"

In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop?

FoxBat · Nov 22, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carboplatin

So I started another toon thru the WiK/Gwen+Thackery story and they added the quest "A Good Deed"

In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop?

Interesting. This is a reworking of a wintersday quest, presumably to let new players see the entire story arc of gwen + keiran.

RIGHTKaane · Nov 22, 2010, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carboplatin

So I started another toon thru the WiK/Gwen+Thackery story and they added the quest "A Good Deed"

In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop?

I reported this a few days ago and it looks like it is a renamed version of a Wintersday quest from 2008, because it was *identical* to the differently-named quest in the wiki.

dancing gnome · Nov 23, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Dear Arenanet,

I have only male toons and I almost purchased your wedding costume pack. Why do you want me to pay extra (compared with previous costume packs) for what is essentially one tuxedo? Adding a scarf does not make it a separate costume, neither does making one dye able. I don't mind if you create 2 costumes for the male and 3 for the female because one of the female ones was a tux (I think you should create something nice as a third item for the male if this is the case though but I'm not going to boycott you over it) but I do mind if you charge me extra because people with female characters get a tux in addition to their two unique dresses (compared to the two identical suits and third almost identical suit).

I also think these are the worst costumes you've ever made, especially for the male. Honestly I'd prefer a janitorial outfit to this, it's so damn plain looking it hurts not to mention it breaks immersion in a fantasy game. You mentioned wanting to design more festival hats that are usable beyond the 12 hours after the festival, please apply this to the costume packs in future. If you are going to charge me $13 for a costume pack (I know people who paid less for the game than that) at least make it something I might consider wearing while playing.

On a final note, (I will touch on this in more detail later one) I loved the Thackeray content. The balance of the BMP style builds and content just reminds me how poorly nerfed half the classes in PvE are. I absolutely loved playing through it and enjoyed it more than most content recently. I also appreciate the attempt to make Thackeray cooler than Kormir (the holy cow has taught us all a lesson). It's super cool that you let us take out Rotscale with Thackeray, I think this was an awesome way to make his character a little bit more legendary than most in GW. Please keep this kind of game design coming. Good work guys.

**cosyfiep** · Nov 23, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I finished bla on my 2nd rit....with only the henchies dying once or twice (and dumbo ducky--yes you should move out of the aoe really)...otherwise it was a cake walk...only had to back up the stairs 2ce and for the most part sos and minions did most of the killing (with a few meteor showers from suzi --aka sousuke)......yep totally doable with h/h now and no consumables either.....all they need to have done was to make the henchies level 20 and infused, would have solved the problem most peeps had with it right there---but oh well.

Ghost Dog · Nov 24, 2010, 01:43 AM // 01:43

They said they will look at better hard mode and improved rewards for the later content, so it's not that big of a deal yet.